Legislature(2013 - 2014)BARNES 124

02/28/2014 01:00 PM House RESOURCES


Download Mp3. <- Right click and save file as

* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
+= HB 79 SUSITNA STATE FOREST; SALE OF TIMBER TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony --
+= HB 202 BISON DRAWING PERMIT FEES TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony --
+= HB 207 AGRICULTURE; AGRICULTURAL LOANS TELECONFERENCED
Scheduled But Not Heard
-- Public Testimony --
          HB  79-SUSITNA STATE FOREST; SALE OF TIMBER                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:07:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FEIGE announced  that the  first order  of business  is                                                               
HOUSE BILL  NO. 79,  "An Act  relating to the  sale of  timber on                                                               
state land; establishing the Susitna  State Forest; and providing                                                               
for an effective date."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:08:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE opened public testimony on HB 79.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:08:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BRIAN KLEINHENZ, Alaska Society  of American Foresters, testified                                                               
his organization  supports creation of the  Susitna State Forest,                                                               
as  well as  supports the  good work  done by  the Department  of                                                               
Natural Resources (DNR) and the  Division of Forestry in managing                                                               
the  state's forest  resources.   His  organization supports  the                                                               
legislative  designation  of  state  forests for  the  amount  of                                                               
investment in  opportunities created  through that  investment in                                                               
the long term.  Designation allows  a sustainable land base to be                                                               
put together  and allows DNR  to invest money  into silviculture,                                                               
tree tending, and installation of  roads and bridges.  The public                                                               
access created in the long  run, and the resources made available                                                               
through  the creation  of  such state  forests,  help to  promote                                                               
regional   economy,   timber  operations,   local   manufacturing                                                               
opportunities,   and   provide   access  for   recreational   and                                                               
subsistence activities.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:10:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WAYNE  NICOLLS noted  he is  a member  of the  Alaska Society  of                                                               
American  Foresters as  well as  a  member of  Alaska's Board  of                                                               
Forestry.   He  said  he  cannot add  anything  new  to what  Mr.                                                               
Kleinhenz said,  but that he  thinks having another  state forest                                                               
is a good  idea, and he supports at least  doubling the amount of                                                               
state forests.  The difference  between just plain state land and                                                               
its  designation  as  a  state  forest is  that  it  enables  the                                                               
investment of resources for long-term  benefit and makes possible                                                               
more intensive management of the state forest.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON inquired whether  at public meetings or his                                                               
organization's meetings,  the boundaries have been  looked at and                                                               
determined that they will work for management of the forest.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. NICOLLS  replied yes,  the only factor  that makes  them less                                                               
than  manageable is  the lack  of  access.   Having state  forest                                                               
status justifies  and enables investment  in good access  as well                                                               
as other features.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:12:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ROD  ARNO,  Executive  Director, Alaska  Outdoor  Council  (AOC),                                                               
stated  AOC is  a statewide  organization of  outdoors folks  who                                                               
like to  hunt and fish  on public lands.   He said  he personally                                                               
participated in  the Susitna-Matanuska area planning  process and                                                               
that  he   was  on  the   "Susitna  Forest   Guidelines  Advisory                                                               
Committee" prior  to the adoption  of the Susitna  Matanuska Area                                                               
Plan.  As  executive director of AOC  he spends a lot  of time at                                                               
Alaska  Department  of Fish  &  Game  (ADF&G) advisory  committee                                                               
meetings and spends two weeks at  the state fair talking to folks                                                               
who hunt  and fish  and who  let him know  what their  access and                                                               
interest issues  are.  He stated  AOC opposes HB 79,  as written.                                                               
He  clarified AOC  does not  oppose resource  development in  the                                                               
Susitna drainage, rather AOC sees  timber harvest and mineral and                                                               
hydrocarbon exploration  development as  consistent with  how its                                                               
members use  state lands  for wild  food harvest  and recreation.                                                               
The first of two problems with  the bill is the way it classifies                                                               
land;  it does  not  finish the  job.   Instead  of resolving  or                                                               
preventing  more   user  conflicts,   it  creates   conflicts  by                                                               
spreading out the ownership of  the state unencumbered lands from                                                               
the new forest lands because the  pieces are not contiguous.  The                                                               
Susitna-Matanuska Area Plan covers over  9 million acres of state                                                               
land, and  of that, 3  million acres currently in  the management                                                               
area  are  already  legislatively designated  areas,  mainly  for                                                               
habitat  protection.   However,  HB 79  proposes  to designate  a                                                               
little over  7,633 acres into  the Susitna State  Forest, leaving                                                               
roughly 6 million acres for  future designation, which could even                                                               
further intensify the conflict by  having different management of                                                               
state lands.   Environmentalists are showing a  great interest in                                                               
the Susitna drainage.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:15:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. ARNO said  AOC is hoping the legislation would  try to ensure                                                               
that state lands in the  valley critical for wildlife habitat and                                                               
fisheries are protected and such  protection would be provided by                                                               
state forest designation.  The  Alaska Outdoor Council would like                                                               
to  see  the lands  that  are  classified  only as  habitat  also                                                               
included  in the  state forest,  not  just those  areas that  are                                                               
specifically well  suited for forestry.   The reason for  that is                                                               
the example  of the Tanana Valley  State Forest.  It  is a little                                                               
bit different  situation because  the non-contiguous  pieces were                                                               
closer to  roads so they  had easier access  than what is  had on                                                               
the  western  side  of  the  Susitna  Basin.    Included  in  the                                                               
legislation   for  the   Tanana  Valley   State  Forest   was  AS                                                               
41.17.40(e), which  says the  wildlife management  objectives for                                                               
the forest  are the production  of wildlife  for a high  value of                                                               
sustained  yield  for  human   use  through  habitat  improvement                                                               
techniques to the  extent consistent with the  primary purpose of                                                               
the state  forest.   So, while DNR  can do  habitat manipulation,                                                               
the legislature in  creating the Tanana Valley  State Forest went                                                               
further  by   putting  into  statute  that   habitat  improvement                                                               
techniques  would be  used to  increase the  productivity of  the                                                               
habitat.   That is extremely  important.  Mr. Arno  recalled that                                                               
when he  first started  guiding in the  Susitna Basin  there were                                                               
10,000 moose.   Today there are  2,500 moose and that  is after 7                                                               
years of intensive  management by ADF&G.  It is  being heard from                                                               
ADF&G that the  limiting factor is the habitat  because this area                                                               
is interspersed with  cabins and homes, which does  not allow for                                                               
a wildfire  to burn.  If  more lands are included  in the [state]                                                               
forest  than  just the  hardcore  timber  lands, habitat  can  be                                                               
manipulated to increase moose populations.   At a recent Board of                                                               
Fisheries meeting, concern was expressed  over and over again for                                                               
the integrity of  habitat in the upper Cook Inlet.   Seven of the                                                               
eleven salmon  species of  concern are  in the  Susitna drainage.                                                               
To protect  the riparian  areas around  those streams,  AOC would                                                               
like to  see those  streams encompassed in  a larger  forest than                                                               
what DNR is proposing with HB 79.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:19:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P.  WILSON requested Mr. Arno  to provide examples                                                               
of what would be prevented  from happening if the [aforementioned                                                               
statute] is included.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. ARNO replied including it  in the forest would prevent future                                                               
legislation from  designating it something  else, such as  a park                                                               
which  cannot  be   manipulated  to  increase  habitat.     As  a                                                               
designated forest with the same  statute as for the Tanana Valley                                                               
State Forest, an obligation would be  put on the department to do                                                               
habitat enhancement  if it  is practical  and does  not interfere                                                               
with  the intent  of the  forest.   It is  codified that  habitat                                                               
enhancement can be done on state  public domain in this area, but                                                               
it has  not happened despite  ADF&G knowing for three  years that                                                               
habitat has been the limiting factor.   This would push DNR to do                                                               
more habitat manipulation for moose in these areas.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  P.  WILSON,  saying she  understands  Mr.  Arno's                                                               
answer, asked whether  there would be something  the timber folks                                                               
could not do because of that.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ARNO answered  no.   Responding  further,  he clarified  DNR                                                               
would not be  closing hunting.  He said AOC  wants DNR to improve                                                               
the habitat  that has not burned  since the late 1970s.   Without                                                               
burns it is  no longer prime habitat for moose  and no longer the                                                               
local bread basket like it should be.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON surmised  it would cost additional money                                                               
to do habitat manipulation.   She inquired what methods DNR would                                                               
employ  to  improve the  habitat,  explaining  she is  trying  to                                                               
understand why DNR does not want  to do this and why this statute                                                               
is not included in the bill.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ARNO responded  that  as  a member  of  the committees  that                                                               
worked on the planning process,  DNR was looking at strategically                                                               
targeting  the timber  that had  the  highest value.   The  areas                                                               
located in  between where  DNR did  not choose  are areas  of low                                                               
value, so  it is  not worth  it for the  Division of  Forestry to                                                               
timber  those areas.    However, the  division  could do  habitat                                                               
manipulation.   For example,  a small stand  of black  spruce may                                                               
not  be worth  timbering, but  knocking down  the spruce  and the                                                               
alders would provide better moose habitat.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:23:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE  understood Mr. Arno  to be asking  for additional                                                               
lands to be  [designated as state forest],  not necessarily under                                                               
forest management but for habitat preservation.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. ARNO replied  the legislature can create the  boundaries of a                                                               
state forest without all of  the lands being specifically tied to                                                               
timber harvest.  The Alaska  Outdoor Council is looking for these                                                               
lands to  be taken out of  "just public domain" in  between these                                                               
blocks of  forest and  have that be  contiguous state  forest for                                                               
DNR to manage and to  try managing for habitat enhancement, which                                                               
is what including the provision of AS 41.17.40(e) would do.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE inquired whether Mr.  Arno is also suggesting that                                                               
if such additional lands were  included they would then no longer                                                               
be available for future conveyance  to the public, thereby taking                                                               
away the possibility of people owning their own piece of Alaska.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. ARNO  answered it would not  take "any of the  ones that have                                                               
the land right  now"; it would take unencumbered  state lands and                                                               
put  them into  a legislatively  designated area  that AOC  feels                                                               
would be  more advantageous  to the residents  of the  Cook Inlet                                                               
drainage  by having  the production  of  moose there.   After  25                                                               
years of going  to the Board of Game, he  cannot point to another                                                               
place  on the  map in  which those  residents are  happy to  have                                                               
Anchorage and [Matanuska-Susitna] Valley  residents come to hunt.                                                               
When looking at state land that  is accessible to the majority of                                                               
Alaskans wishing  to hunt  for food, far  less conflict  would be                                                               
caused if they  could hunt within the Anchorage  Bowl rather than                                                               
impacting areas outside the bowl.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:26:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON  asked  how  including  "non-timber-value"                                                               
land  in the  bill  and  requiring the  Division  of Forestry  to                                                               
improve  the  habit in  those  areas  squares  with the  idea  of                                                               
limiting  forest designation  to  areas having  enough value  for                                                               
investing in roads to access and  manage that land.  He noted the                                                               
Division of Forestry  is asking the legislature  to designate the                                                               
land  as state  forest  because undesignated  lands  do not  have                                                               
long-term value as far as  investing money for timber production.                                                               
This would be diluted if other  land is included and the division                                                               
is required  to manage all of  the land even though  there is not                                                               
timber value on these other lands.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ARNO responded  AOC thinks  wildlife habitat  is equally  as                                                               
important  to the  residents  of  Alaska.   It  is  not just  any                                                               
habitat,  it would  be managed  intensively for  high production.                                                               
Both timber  and moose are  renewable resources.  Members  of AOC                                                               
would like  to have a  place in which to  hunt that is  close and                                                               
economically feasible to  harvest wild food.  Moose  meat is just                                                               
as valuable  to the residents  of Anchorage  as timber is  to the                                                               
timber industry.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:28:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON inquired  whether it  would be  better to                                                               
have  some forest  even  if it  is not  exactly  what AOC  wants,                                                               
because  harvested timberland  will become  prime moose  habitat.                                                               
Understanding Mr.  Arno to have said  AOC is opposed to  HB 79 as                                                               
written, he further  inquired whether HB 79 as  written is better                                                               
than  doing nothing,  given that  time  limitations may  preclude                                                               
starting over with another bill or amending the current version.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. ARNO replied  that politically right now, AOC  would push for                                                               
a  larger designated  forest because  the  area has  a number  of                                                               
other legislatively designated areas, but  they are in pieces and                                                               
not contiguous.   He allowed that  designated recreational rivers                                                               
do cover  some of the major  salmon spawning streams.   He argued                                                               
that  urban people  are  being evicted  from  hunting on  federal                                                               
lands,  so demand  to harvest  moose on  state land  will go  up.                                                               
This  is the  least  conflicted  area because  there  are so  few                                                               
people living on it  and there is no "Tier 2-type  issue."  A lot                                                               
of other  interests in the  Susitna drainage, such as  The Nature                                                               
Conservancy  and  the  "Mat-Su  Partnership,"  are  working  with                                                               
environmental organizations  to preserve  the lands.   Putting in                                                               
as much as  possible now would save everyone a  lot of trouble in                                                               
coming  together and  again asking  the  legislature for  another                                                               
piece.   Because of  the fisheries in  the northern  district and                                                               
how that affects the whole Cook  Inlet, there would be quality in                                                               
protecting those streams  right now by all being in  one.  Having                                                               
it all  in little pieces  will require  having access to  get out                                                               
there, but before access can  start getting out there, there will                                                               
be more conflicts.   He stressed AOC definitely  feels more lands                                                               
could be gotten now.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:32:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  expressed his  concern that  amending the                                                               
bill to include  these other blocks of land would  take more time                                                               
than is available  in the rest of the session.   While being able                                                               
to  make  the  amendments  would be  the  perfect  scenario,  the                                                               
question - if there  is not enough time - is  whether it would be                                                               
better  to adopt  the  bill, take  what can  be  gotten now,  and                                                               
including the Tanana forest statute  so harvesting and management                                                               
is done  keeping in mind  that there  must be good  moose habitat                                                               
when done.   To prevent the  possibility of there being  no bill,                                                               
he said  he is  looking for  a compromise  in the  middle between                                                               
doing nothing and doing everything.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. ARNO  answered the  2011 Susitna  Matanuska Area  Plan breaks                                                               
down  each of  the acreages  into  categories as  to whether  the                                                               
acreage  is agriculture,  forest  lands that  can  be culled  and                                                               
habitat,  habitat, habitat  water  resources, minerals,  minerals                                                               
habitat,  public recreation,  public facilities,  and settlement.                                                               
The blocks of  land labeled habitat in the  management plan could                                                               
be picked out quickly for addition to the bill.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked how many acres this would be.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ARNO responded  the acreage  would  double the  size of  the                                                               
proposed forest.   The Tanana Valley is 1.8  million acres, which                                                               
is not nearly  the size of drainage as the  Susitna and less than                                                               
800,000 is being  asked for in the Susitna.   Doubling that would                                                               
be adding 1.6 [million] acres,  which is not an unreasonable size                                                               
given the demand that that area  is going have from the residents                                                               
of Southcentral Alaska.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:35:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON commented  he wants to do what  he can for                                                               
hunters in protecting  these lands.  However, he  is perplexed as                                                               
to what  to do  and whether  this would  be the  best use  of the                                                               
land.   He agreed that when  people from his district  go hunting                                                               
near Fairbanks  they do get  grief.  If  this is the  solution to                                                               
providing a backyard bread basket, then  he would like to work on                                                               
that, but he does not know where  he stands on this right now and                                                               
he does not know where this can  be done.  He inquired as the co-                                                               
chair's intention for moving the bill.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE replied he is  not necessarily looking to move the                                                               
bill today given quite a few more people have yet to testify.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said that is comforting.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:37:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAVE POPPERT, Poppert Milling, Inc.,  testified his company began                                                               
doing  business   in  Alaska  almost   50  years  ago   when  his                                                               
grandfather started the company in  1963 in downtown Wasilla.  He                                                               
said  a  sustainable saw  timber  supply  has  been a  long  time                                                               
coming; supply of saw logs  is something his company battles with                                                               
yearly.   His  company  supports establishing  the Susitna  State                                                               
Forest to  the extent that  it is going  to be economical  to get                                                               
the timber  products that his  company manufactures  and markets.                                                               
Biggest in these  economics is first the  availability and second                                                               
the access.   Availability will be taken care  of by establishing                                                               
a state  forest.  As far  as access, the wheels  are beginning to                                                               
turn with some road extension to  access "the Fish Creek Ag Area"                                                               
via an  ice bridge across the  Little Susitna River.   More needs                                                               
to be  done with roads in  the future.   It does no good  to have                                                               
three-quarters of a million acres  of timberland if getting to it                                                               
is  uneconomic.   Without this  backdoor access,  his company  is                                                               
looking at  a roundtrip of  approximately 200 miles for  one load                                                               
of logs  to get from the  proposed state forest to  his company's                                                               
manufacturing  point,  which  is economically  unfeasible.    His                                                               
company is happy to see the road  access that is being put in off                                                               
the backside of Big Lake through Susitna Parkway.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:39:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. POPPERT  expressed Poppert Milling's concern  with the bill's                                                               
proposed changes  to Title 38.   Of particular concern,  he said,                                                               
is the proposed  offering of negotiated 25-year  sales to include                                                               
wood fiber users  and biomass energy producers.   Currently under                                                               
AS 38.05.123,  long-term negotiated sales  of about 10  years are                                                               
reserved for high-value-added products.   This proposed change to                                                               
Title 38  would be quite  detrimental to  people who add  lots of                                                               
value to the product and, as  a result, AS 38.05.118 would pretty                                                               
much cease to exist.    Poppert Milling sees this as providing an                                                               
avenue for  large outside interests  to gain a foothold  in areas                                                               
of  the state  that should  be held  for the  smaller local  mill                                                               
owners.   Issues have  been had  in the valley  in the  past with                                                               
wood  fiber users  -- hundreds  of acres  of saw  logs went  into                                                               
biomass and  chips and  some saw logs  were exported  without any                                                               
value being added to them.   His grandfather started this company                                                               
and his  son is  now working  with him  and will  eventually take                                                               
over, so  he is hesitant  to do anything  in that regard  with an                                                               
unknown future  about a saw  log supply.   If the big  wood fiber                                                               
users and  biomass energy producers  come in they will  take away                                                               
the saw log material and all  that will be left is biomass energy                                                               
product, which  is a low income,  low return, and low  volume for                                                               
the buck type of deal.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:42:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARK  STAHL, Owner,  Operator, Denali  Log  and Lumber,  strongly                                                               
supported HB 79 as currently  written, saying there are many good                                                               
reasons for  it.   It can  be seen  on a  map of  the [Matanuska-                                                               
Susitna] Valley  that a high  percent of  the valley is  owned by                                                               
public  entities   and  Native  corporations  with   very  little                                                               
traditional private land.   He urged that the  state come forward                                                               
and manage as much of that  land as possible for industry because                                                               
the amount  of private land is  not enough to support  and grow a                                                               
diverse forest product industry.   Regarding the changes to Title                                                               
38, he said  he supports a variety of company  sizes operating in                                                               
the area  because that provides  a healthy and  diverse ecosystem                                                               
in  the industry.   The  different companies  do not  necessarily                                                               
compete with  each other or  even compete for the  same resource.                                                               
Having medium or large-sized operators  in the area would be good                                                               
for everyone as there are enough acres to go around.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:45:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TERRENCE  SHANIGAN, Alaska  Moose  Federation,  supported HB  79,                                                               
saying that  the Alaska Moose  Federation is also looking  at the                                                               
Alaska Strategic  Highway Safety Plan produced  by the Department                                                               
of  Transportation &  Public Facilities  (DOT&PF) for  this area.                                                               
In  that plan,  DNR  is listed  as a  partner  in assisting  with                                                               
habitat creation.   While the plan may not be  perfect, it does a                                                               
lot  for  creating  off-highway   moose  habitat  that  does  not                                                               
currently exist.   This  is important  to the  federation because                                                               
right now  most of the  habitat creation  is done on  the highway                                                               
corridors and in the last  24 months the federation has recovered                                                               
about 1,000 moose off the  highways in the state's heaviest moose                                                               
corridors.  While  that is an accomplishment, it  is a completely                                                               
reactionary program.   One of  the federation's  counter programs                                                               
is  an attempt  to create  off-highway  habitat for  moose.   The                                                               
timber  harvests and  active management  as proposed  in [HB  79]                                                               
would  significantly   work  in  that  direction.     Nine  human                                                               
fatalities with  moose have occurred, with  the Matanuska-Susitna                                                               
Valley reporting the highest number  of collisions.  For example,                                                               
on  2/2/12 the  federation picked  up 17  moose off  the highways                                                               
between  Eagle River  and  Talkeetna  in a  24-hour  period.   On                                                               
12/30/13 the  federation picked  up 6  moose in  26 hours  in the                                                               
Parks Highway  and Big Lake  area.   The federation has  tried to                                                               
get permits each  winter to create off-highway habitat.   So many                                                               
moose are  being drawn into this  area that something like  HB 79                                                               
would  greatly reduce  the  number  of moose/vehicle  collisions.                                                               
According  to  DOT&PF,  each vehicle  collision  is  worth  about                                                               
$15,000 in damage; using DOT&PF's  statistics, the damage in 2011                                                               
was  $15  million.    Moose  have  become  addicted  to  Alaska's                                                               
highways and  HB 79 will  allow moving  in a better  direction to                                                               
create off-highway  habitat.  Mr.  Shanigan said that  while good                                                               
arguments were  made in earlier  testimony, HB 79 is  much better                                                               
than doing  nothing and  has the  added side-effects  of reducing                                                               
public safety issues and enhancing DOT&PF's current plan.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:48:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHARLES  SINK,  Chair,  Alaska  Society  of  American  Foresters,                                                               
supported  HB 79.    He  read from  a  3/15/12 resolution  letter                                                               
passed by his  organization in support of a  Susitna State Forest                                                               
[original punctuation provided]:                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Members  of the  Alaska Society  of American  Foresters                                                                    
     fully support  the concepts and  values of  the Susitna                                                                    
     State Forest.   By legislatively designating  this land                                                                    
     as a State Forest, this  will ensure that the land will                                                                    
     remain available for long term  forest management.  The                                                                    
     lands  in  the Forest  will  continue  to be  open  for                                                                    
     multiple uses including  wildlife habitat, harvest, and                                                                    
     recreational activities.   This  region, as  well, will                                                                    
     continue  to retain  the large  open  spaces of  public                                                                    
     lands.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     The benefits of the State  Forest are far reaching into                                                                    
     the future.  Our  children's children will benefit from                                                                    
     the Susitna State Forest.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. SINK  emphasized that  wildlife habitat  and fisheries  are a                                                               
concern of multiple uses of state  forests.  Allowing the land to                                                               
burn,  he said,  is a  management  issue that  is complicated  by                                                               
smoke emissions, land ownership within  the area, and the time of                                                               
year when  the burns could  occur.  Everybody is  concerned about                                                               
protecting  fisheries habitat.    His  organization is  concerned                                                               
about  all   the  uses  of   the  forest,   whether  subsistence,                                                               
fisheries, recreation,  or habitat  and protecting the  forest as                                                               
state forest is a good management tool to achieve those goals.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:51:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAD  SCHUMACHER, General  Manager, Superior  Pellet Fuels,  LLC,                                                               
related  that in  2006 he  began working  on developing  a large-                                                               
scale  wood  pellet  manufacturing   facility  in  Alaska.    The                                                               
viability of a  biomass fuel project like  Superior's wood pellet                                                               
plant depends  on the  need for lower  cost heating  options, raw                                                               
material availability,  and a large enough  population to justify                                                               
the  financial investment  of a  large-scale system.   Superior's                                                               
management  team analyzed  these three  factors to  determine the                                                               
ideal location for a pellet  facility and ultimately a North Pole                                                               
location was  determined the best option  at that time.   While a                                                               
facility located in the  Matanuska-Susitna Borough had tremendous                                                               
potential, the  insecurity of available raw  materials ultimately                                                               
pushed Superior to  the Fairbanks area.  The creation  of a state                                                               
forest in the Susitna Valley  would greatly improve the stability                                                               
of  the  timber  industry  there.   The  added  security  of  the                                                               
proposed  state  forest would  make  this  area the  most  likely                                                               
option  for future  management of  wood pellet  and biomass  fuel                                                               
manufacturing for  local heat and  energy needs.   The additional                                                               
access which would  be made available through  the designation of                                                               
the  Susitna  State  Forest would  definitely  encourage  biomass                                                               
industry growth.  He said his  company strongly supports HB 79 to                                                               
create  a state  forest  in  the Susitna  Valley  and expand  DNR                                                               
authority to offer negotiated timber sales statewide.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:53:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHRIS  GATES  charged that  the  forest  is currently  not  being                                                               
managed at  all and is losing  value due to beetle  kill and fire                                                               
impacts.  He  said Alaska needs to consider  non-oil resources in                                                               
the future  since the state is  running out of oil.   The state's                                                               
distinctive competence  is to harvest,  export, and add  value to                                                               
its natural resources.  The  committee's decision should be easy.                                                               
The state  must plan for  the day when it  does not have  oil and                                                               
does  not have  a  way to  somewhat supplement  the  loss of  oil                                                               
revenue 7-10 years from now.   He said he hopes the committee has                                                               
a  bias  towards  developing  the  resources.    A  state  forest                                                               
actually  produces  wood for  sale,  which  is  not true  with  a                                                               
federal forest  like the Tongass  National Forest.  For  the last                                                               
15  years  state forests  have  actually  produced wood  that  an                                                               
industry can count  upon.  The Susitna State Forest  would add to                                                               
the  inventory and  would also  reduce  settlement conflicts  and                                                               
manage access  and access  itself adds  recreation opportunities.                                                               
He urged that  HB 79 be moved forward.   He suggested passing the                                                               
bill contingent upon  a Susitna State Forest  Plan being approved                                                               
by  the legislature  within two  years.   That would  handle many                                                               
concerns  of the  Matanuska-Susitna  Delegation  and others  with                                                               
regard to  the details  of how  the forest will  be managed.   He                                                               
further  urged the  size of  the  forest be  made bigger  because                                                               
state forests have been so well managed in the past.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:56:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GLEN  HOLT  stated he  is  a  resident of  the  Matanuska-Susitna                                                               
Borough owning three  properties there, two of  which are remote.                                                               
He said he is currently working  and living in Fairbanks in large                                                               
part due to the economic  opportunity of the Tanana State Forest.                                                               
However, he intends  to maintain his homes and  properties in the                                                               
Matanuska-Susitna Valley where  he worked for 23  years for state                                                               
forestry  and then  retired from  state service  with the  Alaska                                                               
Department of Fish & Game, Division  of Habitat.  He supported HB
79  as written,  but said  it would  be great  to see  the forest                                                               
expanded.  When  he was working for the Division  of Forestry and                                                               
with  ADF&G, the  agencies often  partnered together  to work  on                                                               
those habitat-designated  lands as was economically  and feasibly                                                               
possible.   He  said  he  would like  to  see the  infrastructure                                                               
created that is  had in the Tanana State Forest,  adding that the                                                               
state  forest system  is vital  to economic  opportunities within                                                               
the timber  industry without hampering the  recreational industry                                                               
or  the multiple  use facets  of the  state forest  or the  lands                                                               
surrounding them.   It  would be  nice to  enhance the  forest if                                                               
that is  an opportunity  from time  to time.   He  understood the                                                               
concern  about having  too  many people  move  into the  proposed                                                               
state forest area and creating  greater and greater impact on the                                                               
state   forest's   ability   to   produce   wildlife   resources.                                                               
Instituting  a state  forest would  help to  enhance the  social,                                                               
political, and  economic environment there  in favor of  a forest                                                               
products industry.   The  industry views  that very  favorably in                                                               
that it is  a commitment by the State of  Alaska to actually have                                                               
less squabbling  and more of  a management  say in what  the main                                                               
focus of  the lands is.   Regarding  the proposal to  amend Title                                                               
38, he said he does not  see a problem with incorporating biomass                                                               
resources in the mix for  long-term timber sales because it would                                                               
not  be economically  prudent  or justified  to  sell high  value                                                               
timber - saw logs,  veneer logs, or cabin logs -  as biomass.  He                                                               
favored HB 79 saying it is  high time to get good legislation and                                                               
that he  hopes there will  be opportunity  to add to  the Susitna                                                               
State Forest land base.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:00:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
NICK  STEEN,  South Central  Alaska  Chapter,  The Ruffed  Grouse                                                               
Society,  offered the  chapter's conditional  support for  HB 79.                                                               
As currently written,  he said, the bill is comprised  of 14 non-                                                               
contiguous parcels of land.   The chapter urges the boundaries be                                                               
expanded to  include all unencumbered  state lands  draining into                                                               
Cook  Inlet  between Beluga  Lake  and  the south  boundaries  of                                                               
Denali national and  state parks.  A forest  designation for this                                                               
area  is supported  by the  chapter because  this land  in public                                                               
ownership is important for the recreational use by the ever-                                                                    
expanding  population   centers  of   Southcentral.     It  would                                                               
guarantee  continued  space for  wildlife  and  would retain  the                                                               
character of the  land most people came to  Alaska to experience.                                                               
A state  forest is  the least  restrictive land  designation that                                                               
can  be managed  for everyone's  benefit, with  the exception  of                                                               
those wishing to  see land transferred to private  ownership.  As                                                               
the  population  in   Southcentral  increases,  the  recreational                                                               
demand  can no  longer  be met  by transfer  of  land to  private                                                               
ownership.   Historically there have been  numerous land disposal                                                               
programs throughout this  area.  A review of  land ownership will                                                               
show  much of  the  waterfront  land has  already  been ceded  to                                                               
private  ownership.   These private  inholdings will  make access                                                               
for  timber   extraction  extremely  difficult.     Interspersing                                                               
additional  transfers of  land to  private  ownership within  the                                                               
land designation  for forest  management makes  no sense.   Under                                                               
the  recently enacted  Susitna-Matanuska Area  Plan, some  of the                                                               
areas the chapter  requests to be designated as  state forest are                                                               
slated for disposal.  Transfer  of land into private ownership as                                                               
envisioned  by the  drafters of  Alaska's  state constitution  is                                                               
laudable; however, as stated by  the late Governor Hammond, it is                                                               
the  ultimate lockup.   Private  ownership denies  public use  of                                                               
that  specific parcel,  frequently  controls  access to  adjacent                                                               
public lands,  and with the not-in-my-back-yard  (NIMBY) attitude                                                               
influences  management  of  public  lands  within  view  of  that                                                               
parcel.   This  NIMBY  attitude impacts  the  state's ability  to                                                               
manage   timber  resources,   wildlife   resources,  and   mining                                                               
activities.  The  chapter does not believe those  who drafted the                                                               
state's  constitution envisioned  the growth  in population  that                                                               
Alaska has  experienced.   A forest  designation for  this entire                                                               
area,  even though  it is  not all  productive timberland,  would                                                               
provide  uniform  management   guidelines  throughout  the  area.                                                               
Multiple  land   designations  lead   to  conflicting   land  use                                                               
regulations,   causing   confusion   for   users,   unintentional                                                               
violation of regulations, or outright  contempt and disregard for                                                               
those  regulations.    In  the   chapter's  opinion,  a  forestry                                                               
designation is  the least controlling  land use  pattern possible                                                               
and will  afford future generations  the greatest  opportunity to                                                               
experience Alaska as did those before  them.  If in the future it                                                               
is determined that additional WalMarts  or McDonalds are a higher                                                               
priority the  forest designation  can be modified  to accommodate                                                               
the change,  whereas returning private  land to  public ownership                                                               
is  difficult, time  consuming,  and cost  prohibitive.   To  the                                                               
chapter's knowledge, this  is the last remaining  large parcel of                                                               
state land in  Southcentral that can be set aside  for public use                                                               
and  enjoyment.     Effective  management  of   timber  resources                                                               
enhances wildlife  populations such as moose,  ruffed grouse, and                                                               
a variety  of song  birds.   It creates  an industry  utilizing a                                                               
renewable   resource  that   improves  the   economic  basis   of                                                               
communities while  supporting the  demand for  recreational areas                                                               
to hunt, fish, trap, snow  machine, hike, and otherwise enjoy the                                                               
great  outdoors.   The chapter  recommends HB  79 be  passed, but                                                               
expanded as outlined.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:05:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR  noted  she  bought property  in  this  area                                                               
through  the  over-the-counter land  sales  and  she knows  other                                                               
people who have adjacent parcels within  the area.  She asked how                                                               
the state should address the private land ownership issue.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEEN  responded the recommendation  in his testimony  was to                                                               
encompass  all unencumbered  state lands,  so there  would be  no                                                               
bearing on private landowners.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR said  she thinks  being surrounded  by state                                                               
forest  could create  access issues  for private  landowners that                                                               
will need to be addressed.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEEN concurred, saying it should be addressed in the bill.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:06:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON inquired whether  Mr. Steen participated in                                                               
the public meetings that looked at designing the boundaries.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  STEEN  confirmed  he  and  the  Ruffed  Grouse  Society  did                                                               
participate, but said the planning  committee chose not to accept                                                               
any of the suggestions presented by the society.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:07:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
OWEN  GRAHAM,  Executive   Director,  Alaska  Forest  Association                                                               
(AFA), said  AFA represents over  100 businesses involved  in the                                                               
Alaska timber  industry.  The  AFA supports establishment  of the                                                               
Susitna State  Forest because timber  is a renewable  resource if                                                               
it  is managed  responsibly.    The AFA  is  the  sponsor of  the                                                               
sustainable forestry  initiative program  for Alaska  because AFA                                                               
wants  to ensure  that Alaska's  forests are  managed sustainably                                                               
and  in  conformance with  the  rules  and regulations  regarding                                                               
forest  management.    For  instance,  the  fish  populations  in                                                               
Southeast  Alaska have  more than  doubled since  the 1950s  when                                                               
industrial logging  in that  region first began.   Even  the most                                                               
heavily logged watersheds have seen  fish escapement numbers more                                                               
than  double over  the last  60  years.   With proper  management                                                               
practices,  the  growth of  timber  in  all  the forests  can  be                                                               
significantly increased.   The great  yield from  managed forests                                                               
can allow  increased business  opportunities and  greatly reduces                                                               
the cost  of growing and managing  the timber.  Many  sawmills in                                                               
Alaska have  struggled to maintain  a reliable timber  supply and                                                               
the  result has  been a  loss of  skilled workers  and a  loss of                                                               
customers and a  lot of ongoing problems that can  only be solved                                                               
by having  a reliable  timber supply.   Proper  timber management                                                               
can  prevent a  reoccurrence  of this  by  providing that  stable                                                               
supply  in the  long term.   Proper  timber management  will also                                                               
result in  increased road  access for  many uses  besides timber.                                                               
For  these reasons,  AFA supports  the establishment  of a  state                                                               
forest  in  the  Susitna  region.   While  AFA  supports  habitat                                                               
improvement, he urged  that the bill not be  delayed another year                                                               
because that can be addressed in the future.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:09:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LEWIS  BRATCHER, The  Great Alaska  Bowl Company,  said the  wood                                                               
bowls  his  manufacturing  facility  produces  are  an  extensive                                                               
value-added product.   His  company is  interested in  this state                                                               
forest  project because  the  Matanuska-Susitna  Borough has  the                                                               
healthiest  birch trees  available.   In  the past  22 years  his                                                               
company  has  worked  with  the  Matanuska-Susitna  Borough,  the                                                               
Division  of  Forestry,  Native corporations,  and  people  doing                                                               
agriculture  sales and  subdivisions  in order  to  get the  best                                                               
trees possible.   Some years  this has worked  very successfully,                                                               
some years it  has not, the wood  was not available.   This is an                                                               
exciting project, he continued, because  it gives his company the                                                               
ability to sustain  for 5, 10, and  25 years down the  road so it                                                               
can  make the  proper investments  in equipment,  facilities, and                                                               
marketing.   The Great Alaska  Bowl Company  is a unique  user in                                                               
that it uses  very high quality birch product,  very high quality                                                               
trees.  The  requirement of that product is not  available in the                                                               
Interior,  it is  in the  Susitna area.   Therefore,  his company                                                               
encourages passage of  HB 79 because it  will facilitate business                                                               
and the ability to grow.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:12:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CARL  PORTMAN, Executive  Director, Resource  Development Council                                                               
for Alaska, Inc. (RDC), provided  written testimony in support of                                                               
HB 79.   Mr. Portman's  testimony was  read by Mr.  John Sturgeon                                                               
who spoke as follows:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     The Resource Development Council  supports HB 79, which                                                                    
     ensures  large-scale  tracts  of land  in  the  Susitna                                                                    
     Valley   remain   available    for   long-term   forest                                                                    
     management  that  maximizes  a  sustainable  supply  of                                                                    
     timber from  the state  timber base.   The  new Susitna                                                                    
     State  Forest  would  enhance access  and  encourage  a                                                                    
     broad  range of  uses on  state forest  land, including                                                                    
     motorized  use, and  provide economic  and recreational                                                                    
     opportunities    to   communities,    businesses,   and                                                                    
     residents.    The  new  state  forest  will  allow  the                                                                    
     Division  of Forestry  to move  actively managed  lands                                                                    
     and  vegetation to  promote a  variety of  forest ages,                                                                    
     which  in turn  would  maximize a  sustained supply  of                                                                    
     timber from the state timber  base and provide for more                                                                    
     diverse  and   healthy  habitat   for  wildlife.     In                                                                    
     addition, active  management would  also help  the risk                                                                    
     of  wildfire.   The Division  of Forestry  would manage                                                                    
     the forest  for a  long-term supply  of timber  to help                                                                    
     meet  growing  regional  demand for  state  timber  and                                                                    
     personal-use  firewood harvesting.   The  state forests                                                                    
     would also help meet  increased demand for logs, chips,                                                                    
     and biomass, feedstock  for commercial, public schools,                                                                    
     residential    space    heating   and    wood    pellet                                                                    
     manufacturing.   Local  processors depend  on a  stable                                                                    
     long-term  supply   of  state  timber  for   their  raw                                                                    
     material.   In fact,  a dependable long-term  supply is                                                                    
     required  to justify  to  major  private investment  in                                                                    
     processing  and manufacturing  facilities or  expansion                                                                    
     of  such  facilities.   An  enhanced  long-term  timber                                                                    
     supply will  not only help support  the forest products                                                                    
     industry,  it   would  create  new  jobs   and  provide                                                                    
     important economic opportunities  to local communities,                                                                    
     businesses,  and residents.    There  has been  concern                                                                    
     expressed by  local residents and user  groups that the                                                                    
     proposed   forest   may   block   public   access   and                                                                    
     traditional use;  RDC would not  be in support  of this                                                                    
     bill if  that were  indeed the  case.   RDC has  a long                                                                    
     history of  fighting for and preserving  access to both                                                                    
     federal and state lands  for responsible development of                                                                    
     natural resources, economic  development, job creation,                                                                    
     recreation, and  traditional uses,  including motorized                                                                    
     use.   RDC would be  writing in opposition to  the bill                                                                    
     if it  were yet  another impedance  to access.   Public                                                                    
     access on  state forests is  typically greater  than on                                                                    
     other  state  lands  because active  timber  management                                                                    
     requires expansion  of the road  systems.  Access  is a                                                                    
     major  focus of  the  state planning  process as  plans                                                                    
     provide    detailed    guidance   on    road    design,                                                                    
     construction, and maintenance.  In  fact, DNR has ... a                                                                    
     demonstrated track record of  providing access in state                                                                    
     forests  with design  and  management  tailored to  the                                                                    
     resource management needs of  each forest.  The Susitna                                                                    
     State  Forest  would  be managed  consistent  with  the                                                                    
     timber management  and deed under the  current Susitna-                                                                    
     Matanuska and  Southeast Susitna area plans.   Alaska's                                                                    
     Forest   Resource   Practices   Act  would   apply   to                                                                    
     management activities on the  forest and is designed to                                                                    
     protect  both  fish habitat  and  water  quality.   RDC                                                                    
     supports HB  79 and believes the  proposed state forest                                                                    
     will  be  of  much  benefit  to  the  local  community.                                                                    
     Creating and sustaining much-needed  jobs in the forest                                                                    
     products   industry   while    providing   many   other                                                                    
     opportunities,  including  public access  that  doesn't                                                                    
     exist  today for  other  multiple uses.    We urge  the                                                                    
     committee to pass HB 79.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:16:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOHN  STURGEON  testified he  has  been  in the  forest  products                                                               
industry in Alaska  for 43 years and is currently  running one of                                                               
the  largest operations  in Alaska  on Afognak  Island, where  he                                                               
logged  almost 50  million  board feet  last year.    He said  he                                                               
supports the  Susitna State  Forest for several  reasons.   As an                                                               
investor it is important to  have a long, stable, reliable supply                                                               
of  timber, which  is what  state forests  do.   The Division  of                                                               
Forestry has a good track record  of doing just this in Southeast                                                               
Alaska and  the Tanana area.   There were several years  in which                                                               
the  Division  of Forestry  sold  more  timber than  the  Tongass                                                               
National Forest,  the second largest  national forest in  the US.                                                               
The  Susitna State  Forest  will help  the  Division of  Forestry                                                               
continue  to  provide timber  for  a  sustained timber  industry.                                                               
Side benefits include roads.   For example, his logging operation                                                               
on Afognak  Island has over 1,000  miles of road and  while those                                                               
roads are  on private land  they are  used for a  variety things,                                                               
such as  hunting and  fishing access.   The Susitna  State Forest                                                               
roads will do  the same thing.  Timber  management, especially in                                                               
Interior  Alaska,  can be  used  for  habitat improvement  for  a                                                               
variety of  species.  Environmental  impacts are  minimized given                                                               
that Alaska has one of the best forest practices acts in the US.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:19:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DEANTHA CROCKETT,  Executive Director, Alaska  Miners Association                                                               
(AMA), noted  that AMA is  the umbrella association  for Alaska's                                                               
mining industry  and was  established in  1939.   Members include                                                               
small  family-run  placer  operations to  large-scale  hard  rock                                                               
mines,  coal mines,  exploration  projects, and  the vendors  and                                                               
contractors  that support  the  mining industry.    She said  the                                                               
state's  actions to  revitalize and  promote the  timber industry                                                               
are  important.   The Alaska  Miners Association  supports HB  79                                                               
because  it  believes in  a  stable  timber supply,  believes  in                                                               
Alaska's  forestry  practices,  and  believes  the  industry  has                                                               
responsibly harvested timber  in Alaska for many  years.  Because                                                               
the  timber industry  has faced  struggles  in federally  managed                                                               
forests for the  past few decades, AMA applauds  state efforts to                                                               
promote  the  timber  industry  and  foster  jobs.    The  timber                                                               
industry  in  a state  forest  would  advance infrastructure  and                                                               
activities  in an  area that  has  tremendous mineral  potential.                                                               
Placer gold,  hard rock mineral  deposits, and coal  reserves are                                                               
plentiful  in the  area.   Increasing the  economic diversity  in                                                               
this area through resource development is a win-win scenario.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:21:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE closed public testimony  after ascertaining no one                                                               
else wished to testify.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:21:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE  requested Mr. Chris  Maisch of DNR to  respond to                                                               
the suggestions made during the public testimony.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
JOHN  "CHRIS"  MAISCH, Director  &  State  Forester, Division  of                                                               
Forestry,  Department of  Natural  Resources  (DNR), replied  the                                                               
division  definitely   heard  the   remark  about   growing  [the                                                               
boundaries]  of the  state  forest prior  to  preparing the  bill                                                               
because it  attended the various  public meetings as part  of the                                                               
area planning process  and as part of its advance  work of public                                                               
outreach.  The  area planning process is the first  step in going                                                               
through  an  allocation  process  to designate  lands  for  their                                                               
highest and  best uses.   A  number of  designations in  the area                                                               
plan  do  that,  including designations  for  habitat,  forestry,                                                               
disposal  for   real  estate,   and  disposal   for  agricultural                                                               
purposes.   For the  current proposal under  HB 79,  the division                                                               
defined and came  up with the boundaries  using forest classified                                                               
lands from  the two  different area plans  that cover  this area.                                                               
That  topic  was aggressively  discussed  and  vetted during  the                                                               
planning process.   The number  of acres actually went  down from                                                               
the older  plan, the original  plan was split into  two different                                                               
geographic areas for the Matanuska-Susitna  Valley because of the                                                               
amount of  growth that occurred  and to  give more detail  to the                                                               
parts of the valley that  have really developed, especially along                                                               
the highway corridor.   The division had done  a timber inventory                                                               
on the forest classified lands,  which is required before a state                                                               
forest is  proposed.   So, these are  definitely lands  that have                                                               
been   identified  as   higher  productivity   from  a   forestry                                                               
standpoint.  That  does not mean other lands in  the area plan do                                                               
not also meet that same  standard; it was just determined through                                                               
that planning process those lands  were more suited for disposal,                                                               
habitat,  or  some  other use.    It  is  a  balance of  all  the                                                               
interests and  needs for this  landscape, and the  differences of                                                               
opinion  as  to  what  is  that balance  were  reflected  in  the                                                               
comments heard today.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:24:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON, regarding  testimony  that habitat  lands                                                               
should be  rolled into  the forest,  inquired what  the different                                                               
management  regimes are  and what  does that  mean for  a habitat                                                               
designation that would now be  changed to a forestry designation.                                                               
He further asked how that would influence forestry management.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. MAISCH  qualified he will  need to  look into the  details on                                                               
that, but said he thinks  that habitat classification could still                                                               
be retained even  if the parcel is  put in a state  forest.  When                                                               
land is designated  state forest by statute,  the primary purpose                                                               
is for forest management, which is  something he can answer.  The                                                               
management  intent  for  the  habitat pieces  would  have  to  be                                                               
reflected in the  management plan that is prepared  for the state                                                               
forest,  which, by  statute, is  required within  three years  of                                                               
establishment.  This management plan  by the Division of Forestry                                                               
must  go through  a  public  process.   The  Tanana Valley  State                                                               
Forest  has  specific  direction   on  habitat  manipulation  and                                                               
encourages  active   management  of   those  lands   for  habitat                                                               
purposes.  That is a side  benefit and the primary benefit is for                                                               
forest management.   So,  there is  an element  of trust  that if                                                               
habitat lands go into that state  forest they will continue to be                                                               
managed for that purpose.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:26:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  asked how  co-management with  private lands                                                               
will occur  and how  will access to  private lands  be addressed.                                                               
For example,  the parcel  she owns does  not currently  have road                                                               
access, which is the same for the parcels adjacent to her land.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. MAISCH  answered he  will provide the  committee with  a more                                                               
detailed  map,  called  Susitna Valley  Development  Lands,  that                                                               
shows the private lands/inholdings within  the state land.  Lands                                                               
depicted in  purple and  red are designated  for disposal  in the                                                               
area  plan.   Most  of the  water bodies  have  rings of  private                                                               
property already around them because  those are very sought-after                                                               
pieces of  property for  a disposal  program.   The plan  for the                                                               
Tanana  Valley  State  Forest  calls  for  a  citizens'  advisory                                                               
committee   that  is   made  up   of  different   interests  from                                                               
communities  around the  state  forest.   The  division uses  the                                                               
committee as  a sounding  board as it  develops its  access plans                                                               
and plans for  the timber program.  The division  also produces a                                                               
five-year schedule  of timber  sales that give  people a  look at                                                               
what is  planned and each individual  sale has a forest  land use                                                               
plan that has  a public comment period in the  design of the sale                                                               
to   address  some   of   the  issues   being   referred  to   by                                                               
Representative  Tarr.   Some people  would  love to  have a  road                                                               
going  to their  private parcel  and others  value their  private                                                               
parcel because  it does not  have a road  to it.   To accommodate                                                               
those  different values,  the  division will  try  to design  its                                                               
transportation  system to  avoid places  where there  might be  a                                                               
cluster  of  properties  that  prefer  a  remote  nature  and  to                                                               
accommodate those that do want access.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:29:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  noted the bill  as written does  not include                                                               
language  directing  the  department  to  establish  a  citizens'                                                               
advisory panel  or to do a  two-year plan.  She  inquired whether                                                               
adding such language would be appropriate.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MAISCH  responded that under  current statute  the department                                                               
must complete a  forest management plan within three  years.  Two                                                               
years would be  a shorter timeframe, but it  would essentially be                                                               
the  same document.   The  testifier suggested  that such  a plan                                                               
comes back  to the  legislature for approval,  but that  does not                                                               
need  to  be done  under  current  statute;  rather, it  is  done                                                               
through  the  agency  forest  management  planning  process.    A                                                               
citizens' advisory  committee is also embodied  within the forest                                                               
management  plan itself  and  mirrors the  Board  of Forestry  in                                                               
terms of  the types of membership,  so there would be  no problem                                                               
with  including  a  citizens' advisory  committee  in  the  state                                                               
forest.   It is a standard  feature in the Tanana  Valley and has                                                               
served the division very well; it  provides an early idea for how                                                               
the public is feeling about proposals for the forest.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:31:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON recalled the  earlier testimony that during                                                               
the  public planning  process  for the  forest  there was  public                                                               
support for  expanding the  boundaries of the  forest.   He asked                                                               
whether the  division did  not want to  expand the  boundaries or                                                               
there was public testimony opposing  expansion.  He further asked                                                               
whether the disposal  lands were supported or  opposed during the                                                               
public planning process or were they division supported.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MAISCH clarified  it was  the Division  of Mining,  Land and                                                               
Water that  ran the public process  because it was a  revision of                                                               
the area  plans.   The Division of  Forestry participated  in the                                                               
public meetings  but did  not actually run  that process.   There                                                               
are extensive minutes  of those meetings.  He said  he was not at                                                               
those meetings himself  so cannot speak to the  specifics, but he                                                               
is  sure the  Division of  Mining, Land  and Water  heard a  full                                                               
spectrum  of interests  coming  from  the public.    It was  that                                                               
division's job  to then  distill all  of that  down into  a final                                                               
area plan  that was  adopted by the  commissioner.   Its adoption                                                               
indicates the  commissioner felt it  was a sound  and transparent                                                               
process to account for the differing opinions.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:32:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR reported  that  the  Iditarod Trail  crosses                                                               
near her property and therefore  the trail likely crosses some of                                                               
the  designated  lands  north  of her  property.    She  inquired                                                               
whether there will be some sort of protection of that trail.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MAISCH  replied he will  have to  check with the  Division of                                                               
Mining, Land  and Water, but that  the trail may already  have an                                                               
easement that  would protect it.   If it does not,  that could be                                                               
addressed in the  forest management planning process.   A chapter                                                               
in each  plan addresses transportation, including  trails, roads,                                                               
and  pre-existing things.    Something  of historic  significance                                                               
would receive special treatment in the plan.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:33:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE held over HB 79.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB 202 Quarberg Testimony.pdf HRES 2/28/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 202
HB 202 Explanation of Changes (Version P).pdf HRES 2/28/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 202
HB 202 Work Draft Version P.pdf HRES 2/28/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 202
HB 202 Delta Farm Bureau Email.xps HRES 2/28/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 202
HB 202 Lipscomb Email.xps HRES 2/28/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 202
HB 207 Kenai SWCD Letter.pdf HRES 2/28/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 207
HB 79 AKSAF Letter.pdf HRES 2/28/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 79
HB 79 Stahl Letter.xps HRES 2/28/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 79
HB 207 Pettit Email.xps HRES 2/28/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 207
HB 79 AK Chamber Letter.pdf HRES 2/28/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 79
HB 79 Nick Steen Testimiony.pdf HRES 2/28/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 79
HB 79 Ruffed Grouse Society Letter.pdf HRES 2/28/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 79
HB79 Proposed Forest Management Plan Framework.pdf HRES 2/28/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 79
HB79 Douse Letter.pdf HRES 2/28/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 79